Running Strong: Empowerment and Community in the Face of Menopause

Welcome to the Start Line, a podcast about running, eating, life and everything in between. Hello, hello, it's Dee and it's Jaws Feeling thankful that I'm not flying solo this week as I am here.

Yeah, yeah, I'm feeling quite emotional.

That's a very last episode of our series of conversations with our immense Pated Run crew community, recorded at the National Running Show. Yeah, sorry, I missed joining you last week. I had an event for something I can't even remember so I really couldn't make it to the intro of the mandem takeover. But listen, I absolutely loved that episode.

If you haven't heard it, please go and listen to it. And, of course, we've saved a very special one for the last one in the series. Actually can't believe the series is over already. I know it's unbelievable, isn't it?

As Janet said, it's funny how time flies when you're having fun. But seriously, this one is really important. It's a really time-deconversation. Actually, we were going to bring it to you on International Women's Day which I think what I said on the intro of the mandem conversation but we thought there'd be a lot of international women's day stuff drop in, so we decided to drop it back for a week to give you the time, so that you can have it.

you know, get your full attention. This episode really does deserve a listen, not just from a woman's perspective as well. It's important for men with female partners to hear this episode. Carol and Donna, both from ERC, they joined us to talk about their running and menopause journey. I actually missed half of the session that day as I was not very well that weekend, but regardless, it speaks perfectly to this year's theme for International Women's Day, which is to inspire inclusion.

You're right. You know I mean the things that women go through at various stages in life can make us feel excluded. I mean from having periods which can prevent girls from participating in sports to the effects of the menopause, which throws up a lot of physical and mental challenges. Listening back to this chat with Carol and Donna really reminded me of my. Having open dialogue about the things that affect women is really vital for creating an inclusive environment for women.

Absolutely. There was a time when we did not talk about the menopause. Women of a certain age were almost silenced, ignored or written off as eccentric, or as Carol put it batty.

But now we're having really honest conversations around the menopause and gaining more understanding of the symptoms, finding solutions and seeing why it's vital that we have a space to talk about it. I mean, just yesterday I was on a phone to somebody and they were saying oh my goodness, I'm a menopausal, I can't remember and it's just a topic of conversation which is now kind of becoming regular and mainstream and as it should be. And you know, it's crucially important because women can be perimenopausal for around a decade before actually hitting the menopause. That's crazy, yeah.

And so many women don't even know that you know things happen to them and they go to the doctors and they don't know that it's the perimenopause. So, yeah, we have to give thanks to women such as Karen Arthur. I mean, she's been a really big voice in the menopause conversation and bringing it, you know, into kind of just normality, particularly for black women, and her podcast menopause while black is brilliant. If you haven't checked it out, check it out.

We actually started listening to it because it featured ERC's Dr Zandi and Love Woo, who was actually featured in our bonus episode as part of this series. So if you haven't heard menopause while black or that episode with Dr Zandi, what?

are you waiting for? Davina McCall's work in this area has also been really important and bringing this subject to the mainstream, and I think that's what triggered things really, and I was really encouraged when Carol and Donna were talking about the fact that their sons were learning about the menopause as part of their school curriculum.

I know, I know it's amazing. I mean, I remember when I was at ITV and there were quite a few sessions that they hosted around the menopause which targeted at all staff, not just female colleagues, and, as you said earlier, I think it's really important that men as well as women are invited into their menopause conversation. So do you know what?

Let's pause on that, as we could get into it all again right here, but it's the last episode in this bonus series and we need to take the time out to say huge thank you again to all of our guests Stephen, rachel, zandi, taz, dina, john, michelle, trojan, lion, greg and, of course, carol and Donna. Did I miss anyone who you're just about to hear? Thank you so much for sharing your stories so openly and honestly. It was an absolute pleasure to be in conversation with you and, to be honest, we should do more of it. Yeah, it really was.

We should also thank Mancipated Runker. I mean, it's kind of like thanking ourselves really bad. We should thank ERC for letting the start line record these conversations, england Athletics for allowing us to take over the Run Club Hub at the National Running Show, and also Mokun Events, who put on the National Running Show, for supporting us and hosting these really important sessions. I'm already looking forward to next year's National Running Show and seeing what we get out of that one.

It's got me blast Anyway. So before we go, we should say that the start line podcast will be back at the end of April with a new season, as we celebrate our wait for it fifth anniversary.

Flipping back. I mean I really cannot believe it's almost five years since we started this podcast. I mean, so much has changed since 2019. So much it's like a different world. I mean it's like a running community. We've gone through a global pandemic. We've experienced a lot of loss, but also a lot of joy. So I can't wait to see what the next five years of the start line podcast is going to bring.

Amen.

Well, one thing is for certain we're going to continue to be a platform to showcase underrepresented voices telling stories that are important to us and our community, shining that light 100% and, given it's been almost five years, I probably don't need to remind listeners to share the podcast and consider leaving us a review on Apple podcasts as well as following us on Apple Spotify wherever you get your podcast fix, so you don't miss an episode when we come back for the new season.

Okay, let's get into the conversation. See you next season. Bye guys.

Hello, hello, hello. So it's Jules here from the Startline podcast and the Mancipated Run-Free recording from the National Running Show, the Run Club Hub, sponsored by England Athletics. And we are now on our second day of brilliant conversation with our community around empowerment, representation and community, and today's session. We have our beautiful members Carol and Donna, who are going to introduce themselves in a second, and we're going to be talking about running and the menopause journey. So can I say a big hello, carol. Can you introduce yourself?

Hello everyone. I'm Carol Johnson. I am proudly a member of the Mancipated Run crew, who embody my philosophy of running free, and Donna.

Good afternoon everyone. My name is Donna Prendegast and I am also a member of the Mancipated Run crew. I've been a member for about maybe seven or eight months now and really love the values and ethos of the community.

Okay, so just to give us a little bit of a background about yourselves and your running journeys and your life stages, because obviously we're talking about menopause and the running journey. So you know we are in our 40s, 50s, 60s, so I'd just like to kind of find out just a bit about how your running journey has started, where it is now and what stage of life you know where you are on your kind of menopause journey.

I'm 59.

You would not guess it looking at you, Carol.

Happily turning 60 in August and I can't wait. My journey in running started, like most of us, as a child, where 100 meters and 200 meters were my passion. 400 meters was a struggle. I ran in my teens, hit late teens and that was a thing of the past. But I did discover the gym Right. I discovered running on a treadmill for 20 minutes and feeling really happy about it by the age of 35, that was gone. I wasn't doing anything like that, I was enjoying my life.

So no exercise, just fell off.

About 35, I stopped. I had a child at the age of 41, almost 42, was happy that I could beat him until he got to the age of 10 and then, at the age of 11, he went to secondary school and his running journey really started. He was encouraged to do the local park run and I had registered us for park run because a friend had told me about it three years earlier when he was training for the London Marathon. He incorporated that as part of his training. I signed up but never went to park run. I didn't know where the local one was and did my first park run on the 23rd of September 2017 and it was the most painful thing I had ever done.

Can I ask did you do any running before that point? You just rocked up to park run and said, okay, I'm going to do a 5K, 25K. That's amazing.

Although I didn't know what 5K looked like. So it was you know I went to round shore.

That was my introduction. The inclusion that is like the worst park run, in fact, is probably one of the worst in. London.

That was my introduction. I did it in 41 minutes. That's a common number, it seems. Yes, my son did it in 28 minutes. We went back a few weeks later, he did it in 28. I still did it in about 41 minutes, but then I continued going to park run. I joined the park run community at that point and we joined the local running club, croydon Harriers, which introduced me to cross-country running, trail running competitions. How old were you at this point? 53, 54.

Was it? Did you not find it daunting, joining at that age?

I did. I mean the first run that I did in October 2019, 2018, 2019, I was in Wimbledon, on Wimbledon Common. Oh, sorry, I was on Wimbledon Common Looking around. I was in a sea of women. No one looked like me. Wow, the picture that was taken of me at the time you can tell. I mean I'm intimidated. I had no idea what was going on. Not intimidated, but you know a little bit shell shocked.

And it was. It was, it was interesting, it was interesting. It was interesting to turn up at runs and be the only one, but at the point that I started running, I'd already gone through most of my menopause. So what running did for me was give me back some mobility, flexibility, which I'd lost. Because the one thing that they will tell you about the menopause is your youth hormones are disappearing, so all the things you take for granted in your youth, suddenly you're trying to and you have to actively recapture.

So yeah, yeah, and Donna, can you talk us through your kind of movement journey today?

Yes. So for me, I did a lot of movement at school. I used to love athletics at school. I used to participate in the sprints, the 400s, the 100s. I used to love doing that. Cross country less so Didn't write cross country. At school I spent a lot of time running around Richmond Park, which is where I went to school. We used to do cross country every week, pretty much hated it and I kind of just fell out of running, to be honest, and I would say through my 20s I was more focused on my work and travelling. So I spent a lot of time travelling through my 20s. And then I had my first son at 30.

And I played netball, love netball. I played it regularly. I played in the North West Kent League so I played at a challenging level and really, really enjoyed netball and I was dipped in and out of running, had moments of dipping in, dipping out, toe in, toe out, inconsistent, and I think that was relatively around my son. So my son has a health condition, a serious health condition. He has a sickle cell and throughout his childhood we spent every other week in hospital where he'd have blood transfusions. So for me, having that consistency for running just wasn't really there at the time. To be honest, I was more focused on my son's health, making sure he was okay and working around the family. Netball was still there, but I knew when I was playing the games. So that was fine, that would work okay Relatively okay and I was a captain of the netball team at the time and that was just something that was, for me, I enjoyed.

However, I really wanted to get back into running and I always thought, if I'm going to run, I'm going to do it for my son, I'm going to one day do it and I'm going to raise money for his charity and also for fitness. So when it came to playing netball on the court, you're kind of fast squint in and out. I thought, as I'm getting later into my 30s, I think I need to get a bit more training going on. I think I need to get a bit more, you know, fitness happening. She can just feel that decline in your performance. And so then, yeah, I looked around.

I thought I looked for a running club and a friend of mine was, again inconsistent runner like me, and she came along. Two of my friends, we did a couch to 5k. One of my friends had never ran. So me and my other friend, we thought let's just do this together, motivational support, let's give it a go. We did the couch 5k, did part run, had never done part run prior to that because it was on a Saturday, the same as the netball games, and again I kind of was running but still couldn't commit because of netball and I thought actually I want to give this a proper go, I really want to get into running and, if I'm honest with you, I just didn't think I'd actually enjoy it. But I fell in love with it. I fell in love with the freedom of running and I found I actually like trail running. I thought my young me hated being on the cross country.

And my adult me. I think it's had a rebrand, though, right. So cross country makes you think of autumn cold, wet mud, yes yes, trails. You know, it has a bit more sexiness.

Yeah, and you can just meditate, you can think, you can think about work, your family and just have that space.

Yeah, I fell in love with running. I was going to ask in terms of your both mothers and it's often very difficult to find time as mothers because you put yourselves, you know you fall down the pecking order of priority in terms of you put your kids, you put your partner and then you know you have your parents. As we get older, we have those responsibilities and then it's you. So how has running helped you find time for rediscovering yourselves as individuals, as women?

So I think, highly think, that running is one of those things. When we say run free, you really can. You can fit it around your work. You can go out for 10 minutes, you can go out for an hour, and you can run in the morning, at the evening, at the lunch time, and so for me, running is so accessible and it's one of those things that a lot of people think is inaccessible, but actually it can fit in. Wherever you are. You can travel abroad, take your shoes with you, you can run. You can be at a hospital, you can run, and so for me, I learnt this and I was like, actually I can fit this into my life and with the support of my family and they have been really supportive in thinking, mum, enjoy that time, take it and my husband is very supportive too.

So has it helped you, though, in terms of, how you know, being a bit selfish in terms of giving yourself that gift of time for yourself.

Absolutely yeah, because for me, having two young children through my 30s and late 40s, or to my 40s, late 30s I was very family orientated and my children have always come first, regardless. They're still my priority now, but it gives me me time and that's really important. I think, as a mother and a woman, you have to give yourself time and I think that's the best gift you can give yourself, particularly then your. I think the analogy of being on the plane you put your mask on to save your children running to me is like that I put my run on, I go out, I forget about the dishes, don't have to think about cooking, and I just have that time and when I come back, I'm happy.

I'm happy to be back there for myself. And for you, carol? Has it allowed you that time?

Yeah, I mean I stunned myself that I would get up and be there for Park Run at 9 o'clock. When it was a challenge getting to work on time every day or getting my son to school, it was extraordinary. But 9 o'clock I could be there for Park Run and I could get there for the training sessions. When I was attending them at Point and Harris twice a week, I would get home from work, make a meal and I would get out because that was time I could carve out for me. And it was also the idea if you're not right, how can you give to others? So it was taking the time to make myself right. Well, keep myself going in order to support my mum, my partner and my son. I hope they appreciate it.

We certainly appreciate it, carol. I'm sure they do, but just in terms of you know, obviously we're talking about the menopause and how that has impacted you. So, carol, you were saying that by the time you joined Crude and Harry, you'd already gone through most of the process of the menopause.

Yes, because I mean I was an older mum, as I keep saying. I mean I had Zachary at the age of 41, almost 42, and I know the length of time it took for my period to come back. I knew something was happening and obviously, thankfully, my period didn't come back the way that it had been in the past, but it was just not what I was used to. So I knew something was happening and I mean, as I heard them say on the stage outside in their menopause tour, I started paying attention, looking, you know what was happening with my cycle, etc. And I did go and by the time I was 45 I went to the doctor to find out what was happening and my blood levels were low in comparison to what they should be. So I knew I was fully in the throes of menopause at that age. How did it.

You know what you went through. So it kind of emotionally, physically, when you started running, how did that impact? Or had you already kind of gone through the process and put you know strategies in place to deal with it?

I think, because emotionally it's I don't know how to express myself about the emotion because you get angry. It's unless you know anything can make you angry. The hot flushes that you get, you know you let sleep because you're getting up, you sweat so much at night, it's all those things that, yes, I was almost at the end of some of that, but it helped. It helped taking that time to go and use my body and I'm sure that whatever I was doing in my running and that training I was doing was helping all of my system regulate itself so that I wasn't feeling as uncomfortable as I could feel. Because, as I say, I wouldn't wish the menopause on anyone. We all have to go through it. I just wish everyone a good menopause because it can be so brutal for some people and I know that what I went through in the early years. I wouldn't wish it on anyone and for you, donna?

what stage of the menopause are you Perimenopause or you going through? You know the early stages, and how has that kind of impacted how you run and train?

Yeah, I think you get a point in your lifespan and life stage as a woman where you realise you can just feel that gent decline and for some it might be rapid. For me it's been quite gradual, I'd say. But reflecting back, I definitely feel like I've been going through it since I was probably in the mid-40s and you just notice that subtle change of recovery. You don't recover as quicker, or you might need a bit more rest, or you feel a bit more thirsty or demyedrated because you've moved and you've sweated, or you might just need a bit more nutrition. So those are the early warning signs for me.

And fatigue was a big one, definitely fatigue, I think for me I haven't really been affected emotionally by menopause symptoms. It's been more physical for me. But I think exercise has really helped me navigate that actually, because I find when I do exercise I feel a lot better. And I think with running we always say if you go out and run, 99% of the time you might not want to go out the door, but once you've done it you feel a lot better and I definitely feel that helps me with my menopause symptoms 100%.

Because research shows that black women and brown women go through menopause or tend to start being affected by menopause earlier than white women and the symptoms the physical symptoms and the emotional symptoms can often be a lot worse. Do you feel that there's enough support for you and for black women, brown women generally, in terms of navigating the whole menopausal process and also just avenues where you can talk about what you're going through and find that kind of support?

I think yes and no. I think I've got a core group of friends from school and we've gone through that together growing up and so talk to each other like are you getting this kind of symptom? Are you getting that when we were in our early 40s? There wasn't much then. I think now, 10 years, fast track for 10 years forward. There's more out there. There are platforms discussing menopause, I think culturally we don't talk about it.

I'm thinking about my mum when she went through the menopause. Who supported her through it.

Absolutely.

My mum lost her mum when she was 30, so she didn't have her to talk to and guide her through. I just think about our mothers and our grandmothers who didn't have any kind of avenue to support them through it. Obviously, we're in a generation and a time now where we can talk about things like mental health and like the menopause. Is the last three to five years become something that we can have a conversation about? I think still there's it's still a bit of a taboo culturally to discuss these things in the same way that culturally it may seem to be something that you don't do, running may be something that black women don't do. So just in terms of the kind of culture, how do you find that quite difficult or things are getting better.

I mean I think you've said for you personally my aunts I think of my aunties, my older aunts and extended family None of the women talk about it. You just hear hot flush, you know, and I think back to when, my youth. I just hear women around me saying, oh, the hot flush opened the window. But that was it. And I thought, well, when I get to that age, I'll just have a hot flush.

You didn't even know what it was. What does that mean?

I just thought my auntie was a bit batty opening the windows, and here I am now understanding what that means, but been able to discuss it whereas the discussions weren't there.

I mean it's that whole thing. Once you get there, you understand the problem for me. My mum had his rectomy at 48. So she didn't have a traditional menopause and her mom unfortunately died when my mom was young, so she didn't have that to look to. So when I was talking to her about my symptoms, you know, mom just went into her health book and was looking for things, herbs and things that she could find to help me, because she didn't know what I was talking about you know, quite similar to you, my mom went through a very early menopause and it was quite quick.

So for her she didn't have the traditional symptoms. So even talk to my mom, she can't relate to me when I say oh, mum did you have this into? And she just looks at me like no, like, please. Was there any symptoms, mom, that you can? You know I can relate with you, but unfortunately not, because she went through an early menopause, so that's tricky, but it is really interesting how the conversation has changed, really, really interesting.

Yeah, you know, um, and I'm pleased. I mean, I remember talking to people check out ladies at Sainsbury's, you know, and I'm not. Yeah, I'm going through this as well, but it was like it was as if it was the first time someone was acknowledging or talking to them in a way that they really understood and can connect, could connect with. You know the ladies I went to school. You know that at the school gates you know someone was older ones. We could have that conversation Definitely and I think in the workplace.

We have conversations in the workplace. We've got menopause and policy now in our workplace, so definitely having much more conversations around this and women. I want to have these conversations and I think even for me thinking I've got two teenage sons menopause is on the curriculum, it's discussed. You know they talk to me about the menopause.

I'm like okay.

But still have to break those myths down that it's not just hormonal. Yeah, because there is that concept that it's all about hormones.

I think that has to be but I think that's a huge breakthrough, huge. You know, when Zachary started secondary school, before he left primary school, they were talking to them about menopause and periods and so on. You know, the education must continue, not just for our women, but especially for our men, as we see the one man leave.

And actually, just to add to that, I think my husband he's really good. I like he will say to me hi, have you seen this documentary or have you listened to this podcast about the menopause? He's showing interest and actually educating me, yeah, and I'm like, oh, thanks, hon, I'm learning something new here, so that's really helpful. But men, like you say, are having wanting to know about their partners or their daughters.

So, and I think it's you know, as you said, carol, we're all you know. All women, if they live long enough, god willing are gonna go through this, and I Certainly want to keep on running for as long as I can. So it's about having those conversations and learning what works for you during your Menopause journey. What's worked for you. Do I have to change my clothes? So I have to change the way I train. Do I need to add more strength training? Because obviously, as you go through dropping hormones, your bone density is a is an issue, so you need to build that up. So it's having that conversation and sharing the knowledge so that the next generation of women that go through because they will obviously knows how to go through that in a better way than maybe what we have or are definitely what our mothers and our grandmothers did. Yeah, definitely.

Definitely no. It's so important to protect yourself. It's so important to have that information out there, which it is now. But know that, yes, these things that you do, go and do some strength training. Take that time out for yourself so that you improve your outcome. You know when you get to 80 that you're still strong. Some of those things you see on Instagram, some of the things that these women are doing, I want to be doing that. You know I'm not far away. Yeah, you know really wants to be doing that. So I've got to take the time out to do the strength training. I've got to eat well.

You know, we all have to do that and we all have to encourage each other to do that and show what the results, what it does for us. You know I'm still, I'm walking around strong. You know you still run it change, change my diet somewhat, you know, as others have. You know it makes a difference. I mean, when I finished the marathon last year, the only thing that I would say is how tired I felt. Yeah, and again, I don't know if that was to do with my fueling to do my age, to do the stage of life I am, but it's something I'm gonna look in and something I'm gonna Investigate more so that I don't have the same result in April. Yeah, and I Think.

When you think about running, we always talk about the fact that a lot of it is mental and during any run you have to kind of talk to yourself and there's a lot of negative Talk that goes in in your head. And I know, when you're going through the menopause, that can be even, or the perimenopause, that can be even more intense, because your emotions, as you say, you get angry, you get upset, you get angry with yourself. You're wondering why you can't do the things that you used to do or why am I feeling like this is so many unexplained emotions. How do you cope with that? Because when you're not going through the menopause, you have that negative self-chat to deal with, much less Having the hormonal you know difference, the huge hormonal difference that going through the menopause and perimenopause causes. How do you cope with that?

I think for me, you find strength is in a strength, right. So I think that I've reached a stage in life where I Come to my work, come to my family, my children are at an age you know raise my children. I'm settled in life, right. So I feel like I draw on that strength. I've been through journeys, I've been through ups and downs and I'll continue to go through them.

Okay, so just think you bounce back and when I have a run like Friday had a really rubbish run I went out I was thinking the fargic. My Garmin told me I'm over-lating. I was like, yes, I am Not that I pay too much attention, but it's telling me where I was in my cycle and I was very aware of how I was feeling and I had a really, really rubbish run. And then in that run I thought, right, I'm gonna do a loop and lovely hill up and down, be, and I did it non-stop. And then I was like this, don, this is great. And that's where I find that you have to find the glimmers. I call it glimmers and once the trigger, that triggers. So finding little glimmers and that's what keeps me going, definitely that's good, yeah, yeah, that's, that's.

that's nice, we're putting it because, yeah, I mean, I, I think I'm exactly the same. I think I turned the corner, maybe even five years ago, where I started to get back to feeling like Carol Maria Johnson. You know, it took a long time, took a really long time, and now I really am there. You know, I do a run. I don't beat myself up about the quality of the run, I do it, I finish it, most importantly, and I feel good, I've done something, something that ten years ago I wouldn't have dreamed of doing, you know, and I thoroughly enjoy it. I thought, I mean, I just think we have the superpower within us, you know, and I just think we resonate and we don't even realize how much we shine, and I just think we just need to embrace it, stand tall, absolutely, you know, and we show our men.

Yes yeah, yeah, or boys in particular.

Absolutely. You know we're important and our young girls, and I think, actually, when I think, reflecting now, I think when I was younger, you quit eat yourself, right. When you're younger, you do that. You put it yourself. You have self doubt. There's a lot of pressure, particularly for our generation now, but when you reach our lovely age, yeah, that goes out the window. You have to enjoy life, so you have to embrace the good, you have to embrace the bad, you don't have to beat yourself up about it. I think that's a really powerful thing for us as women and men, to accept. Accepting is huge, I think. And when you just accept, go with the piece, go with the troughs, but work, family, you get through. And that's how it's run by run.

I think what often happens when you talk about getting older, you talk about the things that you can no longer do. I can no longer do 5K in 24 minutes, but I think we need to change the conversation, and this is for women going through the menopause and beyond the menopause. Stop thinking about what you no longer can do and stop thinking about what it frees you to do. As you say, your children are of an age now where you can. They're grown, you've done most of the work, so now is your time and going through the other stage of post-period life you no longer have to worry about. Am I going to start a period in the middle of a race? Do you know what I mean? So it's like talking more positively about what the menopause empowers us to do instead of what it stops us from doing, absolutely.

I think that's really important. I think you agree with me. Yeah, I mean totally.

You're free in a way that you haven't been for decades.

You know, it's wonderful.

It's wonderful to be able to go out there and run hearing what you went through a few years ago as well. You know, never had to do that and we'll never have to do that.

I think the thing is is that in each stage of our lives as women, there's so much negativity about everything that we go through. There's negativity about us growing boobs, there's negativity about periods, and it's all this. And then you get to the menopause and, as you said before, you're crazy and you're angry. And it doesn't actually have to be that way. We need to be able to talk about all of these stages with ourselves, with our young females, and say we are super women, like we are the super species. These are our superpowers.

These are our superpowers.

They are and we need to embrace it Absolutely, because you know we're life-giving Absolutely To human beings. Yeah, and the things that we can do through going through periods and menopause, we have to operate as if you're normal. You're not supposed to talk about these things. You're supposed to turn up at work and just function. Yes, absolutely.

And we do, and we do and we do. And we've been doing it for centuries. We just don't get the kudos or recognition for that.

That we should, yeah, absolutely.

You know, we are amazing and we need to remind ourselves of that every day, the things that we do.

Absolutely, I totally agree, because I think that you know we talk about life stages and the menopause, but actually we don't also want our women or young women to think the menopause is something. That's like you just said we're going to be angry women or we're going to be crazy or fatty.

Actually, it's a life-state. Yeah, you shouldn't fear the menopause. It's a journey Right. Embrace it. Embrace it as horrible as it is.

Yeah, At times you have to embrace it.

And.

I think you know, discussing it more, having conversations and having that sisterhood and support? Yes, Because it's isolating.

Do you know what I mean? I'm a peremenopausal.

Totally, I'm having two periods a month. That is debilitating. I can't do the things I can't go swimming with Carol. Yes, every time I want to go, yeah.

We have to think about these things.

Right, we have to plan.

But I think, as women, we're good planners anyway, without being biased yeah, and work around our families. We plan and we have to plan around our health, our physical health, our emotional health.

You're right, but sometimes things knock you for six and you, as I say, you feel isolated and it's about bringing your community of females around you and saying this is how I'm feeling today, literally like poo, and they'll support you and they'll hold you up.

Definitely, absolutely, because, as you said, it is isolating. I know how I feel, I really do and I mean that's why it's wonderful to be having this kind of conversation.

It's really wonderful, I mean even just sitting here talking about this alongside running. It's not something I thought I'd be doing two years ago.

It's incredible to be doing this. It's really great. I'm grateful that you are. I'm happy Sharing.

Absolutely. I'm here to have a conversation with anyone. If it helps their journey run a little bit smoother. You know definitely.

If you had any tips for your younger self going through the menopause journey, like three things to tell your younger self In terms of you don't have to worry about this what would you tell your younger self?

Be kind to yourself. This will pass. There is a light at the end of the tunnel. There really is.

I think for me, it's very much just listening to my body. If my body says, okay, I don't want to do this today, that's okay, I can do it tomorrow, I can do it later. So I'm not saying, okay, just be led by your body, but just be in tune with it, just have a listen to it. How's it feeling today? Checking in with yourself and just being kind, being really kind to yourself. And I think, for me, physical health, mental health, running, all combined with nutrition, eating good food and these are things that we're able to do right, and we're thinking about what we're putting in our bodies. Is it good for us, is it healthy? And that's where running, I think, works really blends really well for running with menopause and women, because when we're thinking about nutrition they were talking about on the stage earlier nutrition, hydration, calcium, collagen, vegetables, legumes all of these things If we just practice it, actually we're looking after our bodies, our temples. So just being kind, being kind, our temples, I love that.

So this is what we're saying my body's a temple. That's her mantra.

My body's a temple.

It is, look after us, it is.

I don't know, Myths. We've been asking each of our panellists if there were any myths around the subject that we're talking about. So in this instance we're talking about the menopause. Any menopausal myths that you heard or grew up with that you feel that you have busted, or that just apparently you renounce it in the name of Jesus.

That you're crazy. No, no, no, because.

I wasn't. I think there's so many myths related to running and I think for one that stood out for me that I was looking at earlier today was around if you run, it can stop your periods, and there were talking about that. I think that's a myth that needs to be busted. That's not true. Excessive exercise, whatever it, can have an impact, but actually running is not going to impact your periods. So I think that's a lovely message, I think for our young girls.

I think that was a message to keep women away from running.

Think about who started that?

Yes, it wasn't women Exactly.

I missed half of it, but it was a wonderful, wonderful discussion. It was lovely speaking to you both and actually planning this conversation, because we learned so much about ourselves and each other that we didn't know before. Right, and it's important, so thank you.

Thank you both Thank you everyone.

Thank you. I do, I do, I do, I do I would like to say that.

Thank you, daniels. One of the things that I love about our community is that it is a safe space where we all feel that we can share things without judgment, without fear, without feeling that it's going to be used or weaponized, and I'm just so grateful that you feel comfortable, that everyone here feels comfortable enough to have these conversations and share their truths with us. So you didn't have to, and I'm grateful that when we asked, you said yes. So thank you and thank you to our audience. We're just grateful for everyone listening, participating. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you for having us.

Thank you.